predictions? >> bonkers. >> bonkers. >> absolutely. more divisive than ever. >> say something crazy like i like civil rights leaders were weren't assassinated. >> you guys are the best. my thanks to all of you. a quick note, right here on msnbc, rachel maddow, in dep-de look apartment the dossier. special report tonight at 9:00 eastern only on msnbc. that does it for our hour. i'm nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" starts right now. chuck is live in alabama ahead of tuesday's special election. hi, chuck. >> hi, nicolle. i can tell you this, it's cold down here but i've already had warm gumbo and already a happy man. >> ooh, that sounds good. anyway, if it's friday, it's snowing heavily in alabama. really. that's nowhere near the craziest thing happening here.
good evening. and welcome to "mtp daily." i'm chuck todd. here's at winceal's oyster house in mobile, al pam here because whatever happens down here in alabama on tuesday is going to send shock waves through american culture and politics. voters are about to decide if an accused child molester is going to join the u.s. senate and a moment when all of washington is reeling from sexual harassment allegations. this is the dilemma facing the gop -- do they want roy moore to win down here? or do they want him to lose? there are folks in the party trying to figure out which is worse. not the president. moments ago he boarded air force one and headed for the alabama border to hold a campaign rally at 8:00 p.m. eastern tonight. it's clear, its purpose, to fire up roy moore's base. this white house is now all-in for moore. which really is a stunning whiplash, because their position on moore has gone from this -- just a few weeks ago --
>> is this senate seat that important? >> there's no senate seat more important than child pedophilia. chuck, that's the reality. >> to this today -- vote roy moore. the last thing to make america great agenda needs is a liberal democrat in the senate. the president wants moore to win but the republican leader of the senate mitch mcconnell obviously does not. regardless of the president's position. >> been no change of heart. i had hoped earlier he would withdraw as a candidate. that obviously is not going to happen. >> so now the party is stuck. a win means they're going to have to own moore and all of his baggage. at a moment when that baggage couldn't be more toxic in american politics. a loss means their senate majority is at risk and they still might have to own moore and all of that baggage, because of the president's endorsement. democrats seemingly have the
opposite dilemma. which do they think is going to be better for them? a moore loss or a win? obviously they'd be thrilled if democrat doug jones won. dispatch john lewis and other african-american leaders to sum up the sizable minority population to head to the polls. who will anyone a few days? frankly, who knows. it's snowing -- in birmingham -- and donald trump is president. this race is a toss-up, and things have gotten pretty icy in the final stretch. >> i damned sure believe that i have done my part to ensure that men who hurt little girls should go to jail and not the united states senate. >> announcer: roy moore co-authored a legal koirns instructing students that women should not be allowed to run for office. >> we certainly don't want to have a liberal democrat that's controlled by nancy pelosi and controlled by chuck schumer. we don't want to have that for alabama. >> announcer: doug jones. instead of standing up for our
most vulnerable he chose to stand with them. and that's unforgivable. >> i think they're afraid i'm going to take alabama values to washington. and i want to tell you- i can't wait. [ cheers and applause ] >> and today moore supporters are seizing on the news that one of his accusers is now changing part of her story. to back up her claims moore assaulted her, beverly young nelson initially says moore wrote her a message in her high school yearbook. the moor campaign suggested it was a forgery and demanded it be wee leased. now more than three weeks later nelson told reporters she added "notes to the end of the message." joining me now is senior colleague vaughn hilliard just over the border in pensacola, florida. vaughn, every day in the last final weeks of this campaign, seems to have created more
headlines. today, no pun intended there, today the gloria allred client seemed to gum things up, sort this out for us. >> reporter: yes. no. we're outside here. there's only actually about a dozen people in this line outside of the pensacola arena. we've actually talked to that have come 20 miles in from alabama. looking at beverly nelson's story, being on the ground here in the last month, made hay out of that yearbook. from every event, from twitter, online. calling attention to having that ye yearbook turned over to check the veracity of the signature of roy moore. so when that's the piece that comes out being a chip in the story of these nine women that came forward with the allegations, it's significant. when up talk to the women they want to believe roy moore. they want to vote for a republican.
they want to vote for a conservative. don't appreciate in a lot of instances doug jones' stance on abortion but looking for an out and potentially without having had the chance to talk to them today being in florida the question, whether it's going to convince or give those few voters that opportunity to make a difference and come over and vote for him. >> ironically, look, this accuser, the gloria allred client, was no part of the initial "washington post" report. correct? now it's all being conflated, it seems? >> reporter: exactly. suddenly -- but when talking to them, look at what roy moore's done. essentially paid attention to just two of the nine women's stories up to this point and called attention to that, and really made a case of this. this hasn't been a campaign based on issues. it's a campaign based on us against the world and that "us" being roy moore's campaign versus the likes of mitch mcconnell. the establishment. liberals conflating the women, nine accusers and go down the folks in line here saying,
essentially, who is the "they," they don't know, to be frank. some suggest it's democrats. ship say strange. when looking at the state of alabama it's working for perhaps just enough voters to pull off that win on tuesday. >> all right, vaughn hilliard, you're apparently on a whistle stop tour of alabama. let you go and let the train whistle continue to blow and turn to my guests here. vaughn hilliard, good work. and joining me in mobile is representatives of both campaigns. first start with the chief campaign strategist for roy moore. welcome to the show, sir. >> thank you, mr. chuck. >> let's start with -- the president's rally tonight in pensacola. how important is the president's presence here to your campaign? >> very important, because we need all of our people back. you know? they were sold a bill of goods
on all of this "washington post" stuff, false allegations. we're seeing today they falling apart. the ringleader was gloria allred and now that's falling apart. the people of alabama have stood with roy moore. if anybody would have left, very few. went to the undecided not to the doug jones category, and the president being down here brings them all back onboard and we look for a big victory tuesday but got to get them out to vote. that's the key. >> you said you seem to conflate, and talking about that earlier with my reporter, seemed to conflate all of it. judge moore did know some of the accusers. at least he said that at first and now claims he didn't know any of the accusers. so why should we take judge moore's word on this? >> the problem, the "washington post" conflated it. threw all of these people and asked judge moore, did you know any of these people? judge moore knows people all over this country and all over al. >> he doesn't remember people he
dated? i remember everybody i've dated. >> we know this. >> do you remember everybody you dated? >> here's the thing. chuck -- >> you could be in trouble on that one. >> did you do anything really crazy when dating these people? judge moore doesn't know exactly what he was doing 38 years ago but knows exactly what he wasn't doing and wasn't doing what they say he was doing. >> does the judge believe it's troubling to date somebody who be 20 years old? >> he didn't know, on sean hannity if that happened he didn't know that it happened. so that's -- all i can say. >> he would condone -- he thinks it's okay? >> he said, no. he doesn't like that. he said as far as he's concerned it's not something he would generally do. somebody says they're in klemp and college, believes them, mom says this a great idea. go back, in alabama there's a custom.
you take somebody out you ask they're parents. it's been very clear if judge moore ever took any of these people out, which we don't -- >> you think he might have? >> i don't think he did, you seem to be hedging a little here. >> just saying that judge moore clearly has said on one occasion he knows the family, and the girl thought they were on a date, he's not going to disparage her. see, he's a good guy and not going to get on national tv and go, oh, no. i don't know you. when they ask that, that's why he said that. >> so he doesn't know them or he knows them? he has said constantly in the last few weeks he doesn't know any of these women, but it isn't what he said at first. >> like i said, all of these people came foreand since the first intershoe with sean, do you know these people? gone back, looked as far as i know i've never had any contact with them. >> for some reason, i don't buy it, but judge moore thinks i do. will not come and do an
interview. i'll ask you a few questions that i would prefer to ask him about but you'll have to interpret it. >> but i'm not judge moore. >> i understand that, but maybe can explain, in september, as you know, the "l.a. times" recording of this he said the following -- ask aed, the people asked when were things great? he said i think it was great at the time when families were united even though we had slavery, they cared for one another. families were strong. our country had a direction. do you ind why so many thought that little freeze, even though we had slavery, for a lot of americans in the 19th century -- >> here's the thing. go back and listen to the entire thing, he was asked a question and saying that this country was founded on christian beliefs, and he said it wasn't perfect. he said they made mistakes and right before that one little quote, taken out, i won't call you fake news, but what happens right before the election. all of a sudden y'all take a quote out of a paragraph and say, oh, he's for slavery nap is
ridiculous. judge moore has used -- >> nobody saying he's for slavery but even to just -- revere that -- what about that era should be revered? >> he was saying there was a war this nation went through and the civil war. that was horrible, and the part about slavery you took out, just take out and put in there, judge moore likes slavery. >> i wasn't alleging he liked slavery. i was alleging -- it acted like he didn't think -- he didn't think it was all that bad, at least the impact on families? >> judge moore has been very clear. the rand school decision in 1957, the supreme court of the united states ruled that black people were property or, you know, remember that? >> yes. >> when he talks about the homosexual ruling, where they can be married, pretend to be married, judge moore said like the grant scott decision of 1957. it was horrible and caused our nation to go into a war with
600,000 americans dying. he used that as an example of being bad. slavery is extremely -- >> an odd back and forth with "the guardian" involving putin. the question was this -- that it was said that russia was the focus of evil in the modern world and judge moore responded, you could say that very well about america, couldn't you? and then he said, and they said what do you think than? he said, well, we promote a lot of bad things you know, referring to america. then he said -- like same-sex marriage. he said, the person responded, that's an argument vladimir putin makes. judge moore said, well, maybe putin is right. maybe he's more akin to me than i know. what did he mean why in? >> what he sment that -- when you get down to the brass tacks, this country's in trouble. we've got pornography filling our streets. we've got abortion taking place and judge moore is returning against this defy doug jones
who's even partial birth aborti abortion, before the baby's born, okay to abort them. >> if i understand he's clarified his position, he told me he supporting -- supports the law on the books. late-term abortion. >> abet he clarified it. you got it. very clear, until a baby's born he can be aborted. he can come back and try to pull politics with you but that's what he believes, and our country's in trouble and we've got to get back to the constitution, and godly principles that made this nation great. >> how does he affectively serve in the united states senate when his fellow republican senators, if he gets elected, richard shelby, didn't won't to vote for him and wrote somebody in. mcconnell doesn't want him him. i'd say at least half of the senate they want to seely expel senate. how can he represent alabama
effectively? >> he'll represent us proudly. >> i'm talking effectively. >> he'll be effective. look what's happening now. he'll stand up for what's right, just and fair. that's why they don't want him. >> mcconnell will be his boss when he goes up there. >> mitch mcconnell is not his boss. alabama voters are his boss. he should have figured that out. >> who does we want in there if not mitch mcconnell? >> we'll find out. mitch mcconnell spent $30 million trying to get roy moore out of the election. money he could have used up there, he could have used there. >> if he loses do you blame mitch mcconnell? think the president should have been with you sooner? >> we're going to win. >> no doubt? >> nope. get our voters out and remember, alabama is coming.
thanks to the president. >> leave it there. appreciate it. all right. joining me know, other side, other view of this race, democratic alabama state senator henry sanders. welcome, sir. >> good to see you. >> all right. you heard mr. young from mr. moore's campaign. first of all, what's the state of this race? do you think doug jones can win? >> i think the race is very close, and i do think that doug jones can win. i think this is a turnout race. hoomp tuwhoever turns out their people, that's who's going to win. >> you were among those that weren't -- wasn't happy how the kpar wasn't happy engaging with the african-american community. what say you now. not a matter of not being a strong supporter of doug jones, i understand. >> i didn't feel enough was being done in the african-american community. but within the last two or three
weeks, a lot more has been done, and first, i don't depend up on doug jones to get out the vote in the black community. many black leaders and black community leaders have been working to get that vote out, and i see considerable movement in the last couple of weeks. >> the last time judge moore was on the ballot in a general election it was presidential year. barack obama was on the bam it. ballot. big african-american turnout and judge moore almost lost. closest he came. >> right. >> should barack obama have been down here campaigning for doug jones or would that have been a double-edged sword given the democrat/republican polarization in the state? >> let me say roy moore has a lot of problems, he had a lot of problems before the issue of the young girl kale up. he'd been removed from office, twice-twice -- by republicans not democrats.
he led the charge against removing language from the alabama constitution dealing with segregation in public schools and also dealing with poll tax and other kinds of things, oh, and marriage between black and white people. and so he has done a whole lot long before the issues came up about the girl, but i think your question was, really, about -- >> the national democrats. right? >> right, right. >> if the president had come down here could that have done as much harm as good just because of this polarization? >> i don't know. and that's something that every campaign has to make a decision about. i certainly would have liked to see him here. i think would have -- energized more people in the black community, but on the other hand it might have energized more white people who was for roy moore.
i don't know and i don't -- to me, that's not really the issue. the issue is the people who are here getting the people out. >> what -- is there anything that you wish jones would have done sooner that he hasn't done? we've talked about what it comes to the african-american community. is there a specific issue? it feels his campaign is about one thing. he's not roy moore. sometimes you just don't win if you're just not somebody else? >> it doesn't feel like that to me and it doesn't feel like that when dealing with other people. roy moore has a lot of issues, but doug jones has demonstrated great courage. when those four little girls were killed, murdered, in birmingham by the ku klux klan, nothing was done about it. all of those years passed, and nearly 40 years later, he came in and did something about it. it took courage to be able to do that. it also took a commitment to
justice. so here doug jones on the one hand working to try to institute justice, and we have roy moore on the other hand time after time resisting justice and literally breaking the law to such an extent that he got removed twice. it's not just against doug jones, i think he has courage. a lot of people say what they're going to do but get into congress and don't do it because they don't have the courage. alabama's already a symbol worldwide for voting rights. that's why we have the bridge jubilee. >> you say that positively or negatively when you say that? >> it's a symbol. when i go to south africa, to the country of india. >> they know selma? >> they know selma and selma stands for voting rights in a positive way. it has become a very powerful symbol.
so this race is also a symbol. it will be either a symbol for sliding back or it will about symbol for moving forward. if doug jones wins it will about symbol for moving forward. if roy moore wins it will be a symbol for sliding back. because they'll say -- if somebody accused of being a pedophile is preferable to somebody who's not from another party who is not from that party, that -- that's a terrible image to be able to have for alabama, and for this country. >> leave it there. thank you for making the drive. treacherous weather for you guys down here today with icy roads. >> i want to take this moment and invite you to the bridge crossing jubilee, first resident in march. >> i -- thank you for that inhave a tags. an honor to be there, anyway. >> thank you very much. while all the attention is on this alabama, president trump is holding a rally in another alabama.
in pensacola. i'll tell you more about that in a minute. it's the sunday, it's "meet the press." among my guests another senator sanders, democratic senator from vermont and republican senator tim scott. live from wincester's oyster house in mobile, alabama. ♪ this holiday, the real gift isn't what's inside the box. it's what's inside the person who opens it. ♪ give ancestrydna, the only dna test
we are back. live from mobile, alabama. we are less than an hour's drive from pensacola, florida, where in just a couple of hours president trump is hod holding a campaign rally. for whom or for what? officially the white house is dubbing this a make america great rally, but it really is a make roy moore a senator rally. you see, mobile is in mobile, alabama, and it's also in the pensacola tv market. what happens in pensacola is seen right over here. it's almost as if president trump wants to campaign for roy moore while denying he ever campaigned for roy moore.
welcome back. plenty of flus to get to. alabama and otherwise. let me bring in tonight's panel who's not with me eating great gumbo and freezing in mobile is national reporter for the "new york times" and nbc news contributor. and a "washington post" columnist and editor for said newspaper and vice president at the american enterprise institute and, of course, also an nbc news contributor. welcome all. all right. start with you, dani. what's worse for the republican party? a moore win or a moore loss? >> that's a great question.
i think there are a lot of people for whom this is hanging in the balance. i think the answer is a moore win is probably much worse for the party than a loss, because they can then move on beyond him. start to focus again on the democrats who are accused of sexual harassment and doesn't become their story again. >> you know -- >> go ahead, ruth. >> they told us jump and you could sit back and eat your jumbo, chuck, so -- >> do it. >> all right. i was trying to think this through and i think the reason that republicans are worse off if moore wins is that democrats are better off if moore wins. in other words, they're not going to hold -- this is not going to be a democratic seat. this is not there in-roads into taking back alabama and holding a senate seat in the future. it's a sort of bizarre detour in the, you know, red, red state of
alabama, and they can use moore and lord knows based on your interview, with the campaign spokesman, he would be the gift that keeps on giving to democrats. >> i guess democrats can use more in commercials either way. if he loses, still say the rnc after backing, putting money into this person accused of molesting teenagers, an idea if he wins politically republicans still pick up that seat and with al franken gone, now have to fill that seat and this idea -- there's an idea politically they hold that seat and can pass more measures that way. >> sure. definitely and i think your point is, could be win either way. >> done with the soup? >> let me throw another hockey puck in for you guys and do the same thing kmp , which is the importance of this gloria allred messup, whatever you want to call it. you heard vaughn hilliard earlier and i experienced it
myself talking with a handful of voters. there is this, okay. what's true? what's not true? and there are voters waiting for new information. how impactful? >> so you've talked about conflating the "washington post" and gloria allred. i would say you made the exact correct point. go back. leave aside gloria allred and her client and what is or isn't and originally was in the yearbook. go back to the original "washington post" story, which rocked everybody for a very good reason which is it had people on the record who had no reason to come forward, who had no reason to have any animus against judge moore who had contemporaneous support and corroboration. it was just a rock solid story and so everything else that's happened since then has either kroish a corroborated it or it's a bunch
of noise for judge moore supporters desperate not to believe this has thrown out not to believe people. >> i'm sorry, ruth. you know i agree with you wholeheartedly about this, but you lost me after the, this is a rock hard solid story from the "washington post." here's the problem for people in alabama. i was talking to a friend from alabama yesterday. we just don't believe you people in washington. this does hurt that. there is -- chmplgts is the "this"? >> the fact this lady who gloria allred brought forward, decided to partially edit for whatever reason the inscription in the yearbook by roy moore. now, again, why do we believe her in the first place? because there is a demonstrated history of people who make the case, and there's so many other things other than sexual harassment. they're all the other terrible stories about roy moore. but if you want to sew doubt,
this is what it's done. >> the people are alabama don't actually believe the other people of alabama. the "washington post," end of the day, local people living in alabama who are corroborating it from their state. no a lobbyist in washington saying i used to know roy moore. this is a young woman, grew up in their own community. if they don't believe a young woman who grew up in their own community, respect lam be community, roy moore has beableo say, the media hates me, they're going against god's will. the people i inter1r50ud on the campaign trail works not believe the women who said anything about donald trump. not believe the "access hollywood" tape or some women don't have a problem with it even if they believe it. even if you think there are women out there who said, yeah. i think donald trump is brash, and there's problems there, but in my own household, i hear my husband talk about that. i might have had my own his trir of sexual abuse. got over it. these women can get over it,
too. there are voters doing that. >> all right. pause it there. i have more hockey pucks to throw at you in the -- i promise you, including the very fascinating column from ms. ruth marcus today i want to talk about regarding al franken. that's in the second part of the show. anyways, stick around. what does it take to run against a guy like roy moore? we're going to talk with the last guy who ran against roy moore in a general election. we'll be right back.
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might have provided the road map for how do you defeat roy moore in alabama? it's moore's 2012 opponent for alabama supreme court justice. we are live from wintzell's oyster house in mobile, alabama, and will have that interview for you next. get hungry. ( ♪ ) more people shop online for the holidays than ever before. (clapping) and the united states postal service delivers more of those purchases to homes than anyone else in the country. ( ♪ ) because we know, even the smallest things are sometimes the biggest.
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but we're only as strong as our community. who inspires and pushes us to go further than we could ever go alone. sofi. get there sooner. welcome back. this year's special election is not the first time roy moore has fwhun a statewide election and not the first time he's dealt with controversy during a campaign. in 2012 moore won the election to become the chief justice of the alabama supreme court nine years after he was removed from that same job when he refused to remove a monument of the ten commandments from the courthouse defying a court order. moore defeated the circuit judge
bob vance by just four points in that election. a thin margin for a republican over a democrat here in alabama. bob vance joins me from a little ways north in a snowier birmingham. judge vance, thanks for coming out. >> my pleasure, chuck. >> let me start with that 2012 race. you did an interview earlier today with politico and talked about the importance of president obama's presence on the ballot, enthusiasm from the african-american community. i just spent time talking to state senator henry sanders and admitted he was a littles did appointed he didn't see the former president down here. so, you know, how can that be duplicated in a race like this? >> chuck, i'm not sure it can. that was a luxury i had in 2012. i got in the race late. the former democratic nominee was removed and i didn't get into the race until august but i
recognized i had the luxury, recognizing that the democratic turnout would be there, because it was a presidential year with president obama at the top of the ticket. so i was able to focus all of my campaign efforts on trying to peel away moderate republicans with the assumption that the democratic base would show up on election day. doug jones doesn't have that. i've always said doug has two opponents in this election. roy moore and the timing of the election on december 12 when people are more interested in holiday parties and christmas shopping. so he faces a much bigger daunting task than i faced back in 2012. >> you referred to winning over people who voted for you and voted for mitt romney in 2012.
who was that voter? and how did you connect with them? why do you think they picked you over judge moore? >> our focus was on republicans in the suburbs. suburbs of birmingham and mobile and huntsville, for example. more moderate republicans. republicans who don't really tolerate the social fire brand conservatism of roy moore and that crowd. and our pitch was that elect bob vance and i won't embarrass the state. you won't find me on the front pages of the newspapers. i'll just be quietly going about my job as chief justice, but with roy moore, he's going to embarrass the state as he did before, and sure enough, that came true. but i think there are a number of republicans establishment republicans, republicans interested in bringing business into the state, for example, who
really have concerns about roy moore and his type of conservatism. >> you came up short. what do you think the deal-breaker was? simply a party label? was it social issues like abortion? i've had a lot of democrats down here tell me if doug jones loses, it will be a one-word answer. abortion. >> it's a tough, complicated issue for any democrat. the default position for most alabama voters these days when they go into that election booth is to vote for the republican candidate. period. the democrat has got to make himself or herself known to the voters, but just as importantly, the democrats have to make the voters comfortable. when they go into the election booth, they can be comfortable in voting for the democrat, and sometimes that's a very difficult proposition these days in alabama.
so it's a hard sell. i didn't have quite enough time to get over the finish line in that regard, since i did come into the race late. but certainly for a number of folks, the social issues, the hot button issues that moore relies on so much, they are a driving force. >> all right. judge vance, i appreciate your time here. quite a, quite an election your state is giving us. it's been fun. appreciate t. thank you, chuck. we'll be right back. live from wintzell's oyster house live in mobile, alabama. i just got my cashback match,
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that's over $7,100 on this buick envision essence. experience the new buick this holiday season. welcome back. tonight i'm obsessed with interior secretary ryan zinke who seems to view himself or acts like some sort of european monarch with all the privileges that entails. let us count the ways which continue to grow today. the "washington post" reported that like the queen, zinke has a flag raised at the interior department when there and taken down when he's gone. "vant fair" reported he's had a commemorative coin commissioned with his name on them. i don't know what you get for that coin pap small firm in the state of montana awarded a $300 million contract to help rebuild after hurricane maria. that contract was taken back.
plus the number of times he has spent government dollars, tens of thousands of government dollars to charter jets, use government helicopters are too many to account here and a government chopper required to get him back to washington to go horseback riding with vice president pence. not fake news. seriously. secretary zinke is under investigation by the interior department's inspector general and independent office of the special council for all of these things. his office defends the trip all approved by ethics officials. okay. no word whether advance approval it needed to ride a horse to work. speaking of that horse, secretary zinke may need to ride back to montana once the inspector general report is done. we'll be right back. remember how the economic crash
was supposed to be a wake up call for our government? people all across the country lost their savings, their pensions and their jobs. i'm tom steyer and it turned out that the system that had benefited people like me who are well off, was, in fact, stacked against everyone else. it's why i left my investment firm and resolved to use my savings for the public good. but here we are nine years later and this president and the republican congress are making a bad situation even worse. they won't tell you that their so called "tax reform" plan is really for the wealthy and big corporations, while hurting the middle class.
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it's "lid" time. more fallout from the high-profile congressional resignations we told you about last night. the latest, congressman trent franks. he announced he's resigning. at first he said he would stick around until january. suddenly today he said he's making his resignation immediately. in the statement he said it was because his wife had been admitted to the hospital. but nbc news can now confirm reports that franks offered one of his staffers $5 million to conceive a child with him. okay then. now i think we know why he sped up the resignation. on this one, i don't know where to begin. but i guess now we see why trent franks sped up the resignation. >> well, he released a statement yesterday that had everyone in washington shaking their heads. there was this long statement about how his wife was infertile
and they had been struggle and they had used a surrogate that was not genetically attached to the child and it led everyone thinking there was more to the story. he was the first to resign before the story was out before it came out about what he did. so you knew this must have been especially bad. and offering $5 million to someone to be a surrogate is essentially pretty bad. >> i don't know how you defend it. it looks like -- >> we're just speechless. >> i don't think there's any defending. it is clear, there are going to be, there are multiple members of congress who just, not only did they behave badly, they behaved weirdly. >> look. it's a very strange environment and i think all of us who live in washington understand that washington is a little bit weird. i guess we could say of trent franks, at least he didn't expect it for free but that's the only good thing we can say.
i think when you're a member of congress, you you're surrounded by people who work for you. yes men, lobbyists and i think you lose your sense of reality. that's the only way i can explain the absolute bipartisan wave of creepiness. >> i think the creepiness is a great phrase. >> there's been lots of rumors about what your newspaper is working on. it is an unanswerable question because marty would have your head for it anyway. clearly, more will come out. there will be more stuff on more members of congress. and we'll have to figure out how to judge these people. and you wrote an interesting column today about the al franken situation. it seems to be, is that, so if that's the new standard, what does that mean going forward? especially if we're looking at dozens of members of congress that will be dealing with some bad behavior stories.
>> it will be really complicated, and i think that the franken outcome, democrats and republicans, might end up somewhat regretting. it is clearly as a political matter how much better it is for democrats to have franken, we'll still see that horrible picture but if they can put him off to the side and say they're the party that dealt with it. the republicans are the party that refuses to deal with their sexual harassment and sexual abuse problems. but i'm not sure justice is done. we should have zero tolerance in the workplace and even in the congressional workplace for sexual harassment and sexual abuse. but that doesn't mean that we can't distinguish between degrees of bad behavior. and it doesn't mean we need to have the political death penalty for every offense. and i think built on that, we also didn't have a very, certainly not a complete process
for senator franken. he said he's confident if the ethics process went through, that he would be cleared. and i wonder about his colleagues can. they say they're confident that he would have been found guilty or liable or responsible if the ethics process finished up? it should make everybody a little uncomfortable. >> senator menendez is still being evaluated before the ethics committee. i've heard some democrats say, whoa! so senator franken didn't get a chance and senator menendez continues to get a chance. his has nothing to do with personal behavior. his has to do with potentially abusing his it's office. >> but senator franken's speech was someone who was asking his own party for justice. wasn't a speech from someone who felt like he had been wrong. he was saying, i am who you think i am. a chile for women. and it is interesting as a reporter to see a party, the democrats say they're a party of justice.
in the case of al franken, he didn't get the due process he was essentially owed. if you're the democratic party, the democratic women, and a democratic women senator, can you say, you still deserve to be here. >> they're going to say it is a partisan issue. you may think there wasn't due process for al franken and roy moore will get he vg he should get. when people start on distinguish between democrats and republicans in harassment, it is a slippery slope. >> it is. i'll have to leave it there. have a great weekend. thank you for coming in. i'm sure you enjoyed me not being there. i couldn't interrupt you as much. you're missing some great gumbo
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president convicted after being, who the president pardoned. the same joe arpaio who was accused of abuse of power as the maricopa county sheriff. so i'll return to my original comment and probably something in corey gardner's thought bubble. seriously? that's all for tonight. thank you so much to the folks right here in mobile, alabama. we'll be back on monday with "mtp daily." if it's sunday, it's "meet the press" he on msnbc. and i'll have my tour right here in alabama. and ari, i know i'll late but nicole was late too. so make matthews pay for it. >> my only question, how are the oysters? >> i'll tell you in a few minutes. >> we'll check back with you. have a